r. Morris here has been he even tried to contact the company directly and you know let's just kind of go through everything. I know you even get questions on these cells don't you? >> Yeah. I mean that the the narrative out there is that stem cells are stem cells like for athletes and customers and members and and people you know in your DMs and people exploring this. No one really knows what the difference is. like you know they think that the the clinics in Tijana is the same thing as in Germany and whatever. So there's there really definitely needs to be a it's kind of like peptides too you know that right now it's the wild wild west and everybody thinks that oh if you can get peptides then it's all the same and it's just not so >> I think this is uh a great topic to talk about what is real and what's not real, what works and what doesn't work. what is trusted and what is not trusted, the questions you should ask before you do these things. >> Um because right now it's literally the wild wild west. So we got to bring it home. And and I will say this as as a patient. >> Um these guys are are absolutely topnotch. And the main reason I say that is not because of experience, but because of what they always do. And what I mean by that, they are I'll hit them up and they're like, "Oh, I'm in Japan or I'm in Australia or I'm in California." They're continuously doing continual education seminars. They're constantly learning. And I think that's where you know that you're dealing with the right guys is because they're not they're not okay with what they know. They want to know as much as they possibly can to be able to gather the knowledge to be able to pass that along to their patients. So, so if you're listening today, know that you're getting uh strong advice from people that are not only have the experience and not only are currently educated, but they're also trying to learn more about what's going on so that they can provide the best the best service. >> Well, I appreciate that. You know, we that's one thing we pride ourselves in here is is learning and you know, we never can know too much >> and I know you know, Dr. Morris came on board with us like almost six years ago now. You can't believe it. But um you know and and I love all of us everybody here going to conferences and teaching because our knowledge collective knowledge is worth way more than one single person's knowledge. Um it's funny you you say that I was getting my haircut yesterday. They go oh our our front desk left. She opened a peptide company. [laughter] No, you hear it all the time. Like if you open your Instagram now, depending on your algorithm, it's like, you know, you could open up a peptide clinic in 10 days. You know, it's crazy. >> Oh, it's bad. It's bad. >> It's really bad. >> Let's start with stem cells cuz I we'll [laughter] go into peptides because there >> uh in my opinion, these are the two next frontiers. Um peptides are obviously starting per se. >> Um but but stem cells, when did you start injecting stem cells, >> you know? Uh well, my first regenerative injection was 2003. Um first one I ever did. And so that was my my start. I put a needle in somebody and with dextrose and also PRP that year. And then I that gave me the uh the the groundwork to learn it through med school and and keep learning. Um because as you know if you don't learn it in school you're in your third year rotations you're in your fourth year rotations and you don't critically think about what if I would have done this um right because your knowledge base wasn't there. So I just got you know I say I got lucky I got injured which sucked but it made me get injections myself and then I was with doctors who let me inject and back then it was very rudimentary. You know PRP was extremely rudimentary. I mean, stem cells really, they were kind of coming out, but they weren't out yet. >> Yeah. >> And um and I was lucky they let me inject on people and you know, they trusted me. Well, we do, you know, talk about, you know, going from simple to complex. That was a extremely simple shot, intramuscular or maybe to a joint back then. And and of course, ever since I kept going through courses and classes and learned biomechanics with manipulation, took acupuncture courses and and putting all that mindset is what has helped bring out what the osteopathic center is. And it's it's the different mindsets putting put into one place. And of course, even you know, I kind of leave traditional medicine out a lot. You know, I can't badmouth it because that's how we get our diagnostics. Like we get really precise diagnostics with traditional medicine. And you know that from ultrasound and y >> and how we train um in and physical exam and combining that with the biomechanics with the injections that's what's that's what gets us where we are and you know talking about stem cell directly I I started that about 201 12 to 13. >> Yeah. >> And then I went to the world stem cell summit in 2014 and there was a team doc for the San Antonio Spurs and he was injecting the tissue graft and that's what got me into that. He's like, "Yeah, we inject the guys and they take a day off and they're playing and and they they play till they're 40 and they play at high levels till they're 40." And then then Manning introduced me as somebody that was on the team and he told me he got injected by that same product and that just reinforced within me and I started using that product almost on every single patient back then. And to me that is the best thing to inject into a tendon, a ligament >> um is this tissue graft. And then we augment that with things like exoomes or MSC's or other types of stem cell products. >> Yeah. So, so think about the timing of what he just said. Most docs are just doing PRP now. He's been doing it since 2003. That's a very long time. Most docs, I'll give you an idea. My buddy from Fellowship, I was with him this weekend. He is a traditional doc up in northern part of Florida and he only does PRP. He's considering adding stem cells in 2026, you know. So when you added them in 2012, 2013, you go through a lot of the trials and tribulations that you end up trying to learn through. And and the hard part about learning about stem cells is like what are they? Are they all the same? Are they risky? and and and we'll talk about this briefly. Um what are these new muse cells and are they real? And we'll we'll touch on that in a second, but how do you describe what a stem cell is to a patient? >> So, you know, it's a loaded question because everybody says stem cell. Even the new laws that came out in Florida, for example, they say stem cell, but then they define it as like a placental product and other things, right? So if it was truly one cell, they wouldn't have to define it in so many different ways. So that that automatically shows me that there's confusion in the field. But we go back to the original paper by Arnold Kaplan that defined what we actually inject is a mezzenyal stem cell in the 1990s. >> But he wrote another paper in 2017 that said it's time to change the name. and and we need to call it a signaling cell, not a stem cell because it releases growth factors called exoomes that stimulate the local tissue to heal and actually stimulates the local tissue specific stem cell to heal. And so if that's the mechanism, well that cell is not becoming new tissue. You know that's the first when you come into my office if we talk about this uh topic I ask you know what do you think a stem cell does and people think it becomes new tissue. Well it doesn't. It releases exoomes and that helps the body to regenerate its own self. >> Yeah. >> Come up with a a synonym right now. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? >> Like right now. >> Yeah. Like right now. And then just and then and then trademark it. [laughter] >> Oh. Oh. A new cell. >> No. Well, like STEM cell, but come up with an acronym for STEM. So like signal signaling, >> you know, something blah blah blah, you know? >> You know, >> so you own the word. That's a you know what that's a great idea. That's what that's why we brought you along. [laughter] >> I'm always thinking about the money. So >> So you know for me I think of stem cells as signals as as delivering a message to an area. So we had a patient come in a little bit ago and he wanted [clears throat] to do IV stem cells. I said okay. Are you doing it for longevity? What are you doing it for? He says I have back pain. I said why don't you just stick the needle where the injury is? He said, "The duck that I use doesn't do that." I said, "Well, we do. Why don't we just do that rather than injecting it in your vein and hopefully 10, 15, maybe 20% find your injury randomly." The problem is a bunch of that is going to get trapped in your lungs. A bunch of that's going to go to your heart, which is fine, but if you're trying to fix an injury, stick the needle where the problem is, you know, and that's where a lot of people aren't comfortable. That's where they [snorts] just inject it like a cortisone, which is a big problem because, you know, think of it as like they're blindly hoping that it finds the problem. And we don't do that here. We're using a combination between uh ultrasound and sometimes X-ray guidance to deliver it exactly where it needs to go, often um in in relatively large volumes because you can't use a mild product to fix a significant injury. you have to fight might with might. And that's the the misconception like, "Oh, I'm just going to do 50 million stem cells or whatever the number is and it's going to fix it." Well, if it's a mild injury, that's plenty. But if it's a mild a moderate or severe injury, that's probably not going to be enough. And is that the only source of pain or is it contributing coming from other areas? That's always the biggest issue. Like, oh, I did stem cells that didn't work. Where did they come from? What was the sourcing? How was the potency? Where were they delivered? Did you do good PT after? Did they break up the scar tissue? Was it done under guidance? You have all these different levels below it and underneath it to say, well, it's not like, you know, there's not one sizefits-all. You have to understand, and that's the hardest part. That's why I I lecture at all these courses, and that's why I like to continue to learn because there's it's such a crazy and emerging field. And that's why you know we do our our prolong graph procedure we call it where it's basically taking old school prolotherapy base but injecting a super potent product whether it's atapose bone marrow PRP or tissue alligraph we like exoomes MSC's whatever you're using we're mixing and matching depending on the severity of the injury depending on the specifics if someone has a bad rotator cuff tear the tissue elegraph is the best thing money can buy for it whether or not you can afford is a separate discussion But if you put exoomes in there, it will help. But 20, 30, 40% of those exoomes might leave and go somewhere else. You have to understand the properties of what you're injecting and the potency of of of the of the product. They're not all created equal. In a in an ideal world, from an exoome perspective, you're going to use one that is placentalbased from precoid. We have that available. But most people aren't going to do that because they're not going to be willing to spend the price it costs to get that high level product. You know, when when people ask, well, what is a if you were to give me an analogy for a size of a stem cell versus say a size of an exoome, think of an a stem cell as a size of an American football stadium. Think of an exoome as a P on the 50 yard line. There's billions of exoomes in one stem cell. So, they're the worker bees, I call them. They're the ones that do all the [snorts] work. and they're filled up of all these different growth factors. So when you try to compare, hey, uh, you know, and I I all the what I call traditional docs say, oh, just do PRP in there. I'm like, PRP is about a three out of 10 in potency. Exosomes are probably about a seven and the tissue alligraphs about a nine, depending on the sourcing. If this injury is an eight, PRP is not really going to move the needle. I don't care if you do it three or four times, right? That's the caveat. But most people like, well, that's what the data shows. big pharma has no interest in these because they can't capitalize the market. They're never going to spend $50 or $100 million to study this because they don't have any skin in the game. That's the problem with traditional and and that's where all the team docs do this and everything. That's the issue is that you see, oh, he got PRP. Luca went to Spain to get reportedly get PRP. Well, his injury was much worse than PRP can handle and that's why he never returned. You know, that's the issue. and and and most people they don't understand it and and and the next phase in the United States after peptides in my opinion will be stem cells. >> Yeah. >> Let me let me ask you this then. So >> is it easier for us to tell people what not to do or is it easier to explain >> what is the good what to do? You see what I'm saying? Because sometimes like for example uh counterfeit money like counterfeit money you study you don't study counterfeit you study >> real money >> the real money so that when you see a counterfeit it immediately like it's obvious. >> Yeah. So I kind of see this as that like you guys are studying the right stuff so that when the wrong stuff happens then you know kind of like Duncan's proced like his facility is is obsessed with making sure that every single cell is what he says it is >> and he has these you know he's splitting them up and he has all these different departments or whatever. So I guess my quest, my direct question is is what should we tell people not to do? Because there are so many people out there, you know, is Tijana a good thing? Is is going to Germany a good thing? You know what I mean? So cuz I hear that all the time like, oh, I'm going to Tijana and I'm going to Medí and I'm going to Germany and I'm, you know, and so >> what do you say to that? >> I'll answer the specifics of the other countries because I talked to someone who's in the know, but what are your thinks? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean just and the initial thought is okay you know who's running the place is it private equity is it a scientist and that to me tells a lot if it's private equity you always have to wonder at some point they want money right and and they're going to cut in and they're going to they're going to gear things toward a financial reason more than they will a [snorts] medical in my opinion you know but that's not hard and fast right but it's just little things if it's a physicianowned or or like you know somebody like Duncan who who owns the actual stem cell company as a scientist, you know, that tells me a lot more than somebody who's just throwing money at somebody and then it's building up because I don't know, it just rubs me the wrong way um in that regard. Uh you know, there I'm sure there's lots of great places overseas um but what are they actually doing and do they change it over the years? Even the neurologist we talked to about doing uh this focused brain ultrasound said he took um a technology to a place over in Costa Rica and he said they're not doing it the way he taught them anymore. Well, okay, then how many other places are not doing what the original thought and belief was? And maybe it's for the better. Maybe some places are advancing, right? So, I I can't say they're absolutely wrong, but it brings into question about what are they actually doing? the you know one thing they can do overseas that we can't do here is get culture expanded placental MSC's we can get the exoomes in just the amount of quantities that the MSC's have um but you now Dr. Morris here. He's going to talk about um a company that we have found that is opening up and they have opened up in America that we actually can buy the cells from themselves. So that that has opened up finally. >> What about that place that we met that guy in I think it was Memphis or uh >> that banks your stem cell. What is that? >> Well, that's that's from you. So we could take your fat and send it and they could they could store your cells. But everybody tends to want placentalbased products, right? >> And so even though we've seen great results with people's own cells, at the end of the day, if we can get placental, let's just do it. >> Yeah. They're going to be much stronger, you know. So I spoke with a scientist PhD last week. Um and I said, you know, what is your background? and he says, "I was one of the main scientists that was in the original Panama Stem Cell Institute." So, no, I I haven't told this anyone yet, so this will be the first time. So, I was asking all these questions because rarely do I get this level of knowledge and access in in a very short period of time. So, I'm like, "All right, first of all, you were in the no. If you had a choice of any stem cell, you're talking placental tissue alligraph uh you know uh I wrap coming from uh you know bone marrow adipos you name whatever you you literally have everything what would you do and he says umbilical cord for IV specifically for IV. I said okay why he said they are the strongest and they are the safest meaning they are the most stable and we'll talk about that in a sec. And where do you get the umbilical cord? >> The actual umbilical. So it's a donated uh mom and baby get deliver baby. Normally the amniotic sack placenta and the and the actual umbilical cord will get thrown away. This time they get donated. Before this they get checked for everything under the sun via lab. Then once mom and baby are delivered they get checked again. The crazy part is I I asked him I said hey how much how many MSC's how many stem cell percentage is in the entire umbilical cord. He said 5%. That's it. There's only 5% the whole cord. >> So as you can imagine there's not many of them. So now you understand why they want to culture expand them. You want to turn 10 into 50 and and 50 into 100. So I said, "What is the difference between American uh culture expansion and Panama, Colombia, you know, Mexico, wherever?" He said, "First of all, for each batch, you have to test extensively all the viology. Make sure there's nothing crazy in that cell." He said, "Each batch cost $200,000 to test." >> So if you're doing 20 batches, you can imagine how expensive it gets. He said Panama probably spends 90% less. He said they don't really check for anything. So you're kind of rolling the dice. The second thing when you culture expand a cell, turn one cell into two, two cell into four, so on and so forth. After a multiplication of four or five rounds or passes we call it becomes unstable or it can become unstable. The cell is structured. It is not meant to be multiplied. Exoomes are not. So they can be on average Panama, Colombia, Mexico. How many times this is the question I asked them. How many times do they culture expand? Between eight and 15. And the reason we don't like that because they can actually mutate. >> Yeah. So they can become >> if they go too far. Yeah. >> Yeah. And he said, "I've had some stem cell line some lines that at 15 passes they were still okay." And he said some at eight Mm- they were starting to change already. So that's the, you know, and that's the tricky part. >> And if they're not checking for like diseases and stuff like that, then you could be passing on a disease to somebody, >> you know, and and those are not American sourced. I asked him, he said the ones we have here have to, you know, we're American sourced. But so that just gives you a little insight into, you know, what the type of cells they're using and the type of product they're doing. The other thing I've heard, and I I have a very high level physical therapist that I injected here in Miami in November, and he had a pretty significant knee injury. It was there was about 15 injections, and he's like, "Hey, I I have a buddy that works at one of the Columbia stem cell places. I'm going to have him inject cells." I said, "Okay." So he he I had injected him before. He knew exactly where the problem was. Everything. He's a high level PT. He knows the anatomy really well. So he goes over there and the doc injecting didn't know where to go. So the patient is telling the doctor where to inject like, "Hey, that's not where my injury is. My injury is back here." To give you an idea. So that's part of the issue. If you have simple stuff, they can put it into the joint. I can teach a monkey how to inject a joint. It's easy. But can you put it into every little nook and cranny safely under guidance and make sure you're putting it in the right spot? That's the technique and the hard part. That's very hard to teach and it's very time consuming and that's where a lot of these companies struggle. >> Yeah. >> Because they don't have the experience, they don't have the knowledge, they don't have the time, and they don't have the expertise. >> Well, and trust, right? That's what it comes down to. So, you got to trust that these other companies are telling you the truth. And even us, I mean, people have to trust us that we're actually telling the truth. >> Yeah. >> And and to me, you know, as everybody knows here, I'm the worst marketer in the world. And and that's because I I just put my head down and work and get results. And if you get results, then people are going to start to see it. And and now we're trying to figure out how to market. >> Yeah. So that's the gist of of USA versus other countries. Uh it's a safety, it's a stability, it's a volume issue. Uh, and the reason that's part of the reason why they can make it so cheap because they're not checking anything. >> I was about to say and then so if I hear you correctly though, does it still mean that the placenta stem cells are the best? Do you all agree with that? >> Yeah, there was research years ago, a long time ago that was done in a lab where they regrrew muscle and they used adult like from bone marrow and from adapose and then they used placental. All of it regrrew muscle. So you're going to get a good effect from everything. But when you look at it under a microscope and and you see all the little details of what a muscle is actually built of, the placental cells did it just a little bit better. >> And then so where where do we get those? So we we get them. So the companies uh work through tissue banks and they get them through donated placentas and then those the women have to go through about a 50 to 60 page questionnaire where they don't have medical they can't have a medical history. They don't have any medical disease or take medicine through the pregnancy and then they have to know the parents who also have to have a clean medical history too. Um otherwise they re they reject it and they don't want to put it in. So, you know, as much regulation as we go through, it's a bit more expensive because of that, but you know, you're getting a safe product >> here. >> And who does that? >> Um, the company. So, that that's where it all becomes proprietary, right? The companies work with the hospitals and the tissue banks in order to get that. And then they have to talk to the women to donate their placenta because they're not allowed to actually sell it. Um, you know, because actually human trafficking >> and blood on the black market. Yeah. Yep. Unfortunately, >> so there's not >> technically a a company that does this. >> There's a couple >> tissue banks. Tissue tissue banks are the most common and then a lot of places get these products from tissue banks and tissue banks are highly regulated. >> So, >> and do you all use this at all? >> We Well, we use companies that get them from tissue banks. >> Yeah. So, so I'll give you an example. So if someone has an Achilles rupture and they want it reinforced with amniotic tissue alligraph the actual sack of that was a baby was just delivered you know through and around they when when mom and baby get delivered they normally the amniotic sack and placenta would get uh thrown away. This time they get donated. At that point everything gets evaluated. They decide to which pieces they want to use for what. The cell the the the structure closest to baby has the strongest tissue, the most potent tissue per se. As you start to get closer to mom, it's not as strong. It's still strong, it's just not as strong. So they will actually splice that and put it into sheets almost like a piece of paper. And they sell it to the surgeons as a sheet and they actual in the O will actually wrap the Achilles tendon, wrap a nerve, whatever they're doing. And that is Striker, very famous orthopedic brand, has their own tissue pretty much contract. And any surgeon that wants to use it, it's covered. Now, we can't inject a sheet because it's not possible to fit through a syringe. So, we inject the pieces. It's the same thing. Literally the the exact same product. The only difference is ours is in pieces and theirs is in sheets. You know, uh, and you know, the cool thing is it's not live. It you don't have to worry about storing it. You don't have to worry about keeping it at 85 degrees Celsius like our exoomes. But it works beautifully because it's like I like to call it a scaffolding. So the body uses almost like building on top of each other, you know, and it you can't do it IV, but that's part of the reason, but no one uses it because they don't even know it exists. You know, a tissue banks use it predominantly for wound repair and that type of stuff. >> So um you know, and you can mix and match it with PRP or whatever you want. like we do that all the time, you know, but that's part of the cool part of the tissue alligraphs, but no one knows enough about it and no one knows it exists, which is why they don't use it. >> Um, you know, >> well well, nobody has experience using it. So, if you don't know the the volume or the dosage to to inject, then you don't you have no idea what to do with it, then you're not going to you're not going to buy it. >> You think one cc is going to be enough and you probably need four. And it gets expensive. you know, it can get if you don't if you haven't used it before and you don't know how to process it, you don't know how to break it down, you know how much to use, you're like, "That might be an expensive product." And they end up getting turned off by the money. And I'm like, look at how much product it's going to take and then go from there, you know, and that's the hard part, unfortunately. Well, and that's why the cells themselves, they they've quantified them. You know, 20 million, 50 million, 100 million. You know, people have a rough idea. And that's that why that's why it's easier for us to talk about exoomes because you talk to 10 exome companies, they all tell you either million cells, trillion cells, who knows, right? But how do we compare that to the actual cells that people get overseas? Well, now we have a company that we we can actually do that with. We can say, "Hey, there there one this vial is worth 7 million cells or this one's equivalent to 20 million. This one's equivalent to 100 million because the exoomes are the active part of the the uh stem cells. So, um they're going to get the same result. And that kind of, you know, leads us into the new thing out there, um the muse cells. you know, we you know, we had somebody call down here last year and flew in and and talked to us and said, "Well, I really want to use these mucels." And truth is, I told him, "No, because I didn't understand what the cell was." And that's one thing you'll get from me. Um, we go to conferences for reasons. We want to learn everything we can. And the muse cells bothered me for one, we go to lots of stem cell conferences. We never heard about it. That was number one. And then um they were made famous um through the journal Nature, but it was it looked like a research article, but it was really an advertisement and Nature had to take the advertisement out because it it's just very deceptive. Um and so that was, you know, I it just gave me a bad feeling automatically. So I didn't want to I didn't want to touch the cells until we really knew what they were. And it's been a a journey since then though you know because you get a lot of mis um a misrepresentation you know I found a lot of doctors using mu cells but I did not find PhD and scientists getting research to back them and that that really bothered me because I'm like doctors are being sold stuff and and unfortunately we don't have the depth of knowledge like a PhD does in the lab and doing the research on all this. you know, if somebody shows us some data, we kind of, you know, we we have to take it with a grain of salt, you know. Um, but not all doctors are like that. I had a biochem degree and I did research in Oakidge National Lab, UT hospital back in the day, and that gave me a little bit of a framework of how to work with cells and do things, but I don't know what these PhDs know. I just know it didn't sound right, didn't feel right intuitively, like you were asking earlier, what not to do. And to me, everything else I've learned about up to this point had a different path to get to be popular. This one came in from a different angle and I just didn't like it. You know, may maybe it's a real cell, but you know, we're going to go through some information here to talk about uh because there's a lot of question marks on this cell. >> So, let's talk about >> y'all keep talking. >> Okay. >> Dawa muse cells. >> Zawa. So D E Z A W A [snorts] I go to four to five stem cell conferences a year. I've never met someone who promotes this company, who discusses this company, who knows anything about this company. What does that pretty much tell you? Moving forward, it dates back maybe 10, 12 years to Mary Dawa, the the scientist or physician that that discovered it. But the question is, and we spoke with with Duncan, who was supposed to be here, but he wasn't able to make it today, who runs a very high level exoome company called Chimera, who's a lab rat. He knows he knows exosomes inside and out. He knows all the stem cell lines. He could tell you any CD marker on any cell. He knows it all. He's like I'm like, "Duncan, please tell me what these cells are and how to make them. Where do we get them? How do you how do you create them?" He says, "I've tried. I can't figure out how to make them. He's like, I deal with stem cells and exoomes every day. I have no idea how to make these cells. What does that tell you? Either they're super proprietary or they're probably not real in the first place. So then you dig a little bit deeper. All of the papers on their site are all co-authored by everyone else. Furthermore, their main product CL20 was halted in 2023 by Midsubishi. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. The other issues, we can't figure out how to isolate these cells. If you can isolate them, please. Their main studies were on three patients, five patients, nine patients, and 10 patients. That's not exactly a large volume they had. And those were not, you know, uh, double blinded traditional studies. These were one small random anized controlled study that had 25 patients versus 10 patients, you know, and then we look at the safety review. It was supposedly peer-reviewed. You know who peer-reviewed it? The lady who discovered the company. Again, >> sounds suspect to me, >> you know. So until you show me something that a stem cell can do, you know, without going super deep dive into the paper, they basically took them from bone marrow stem cells and and created something called SSA3 marker and then went from there. The problem is they never compared them directly to MSC's. How do we know this just aren't just a piece of the MSSE that's working like we've been using it for 20 years working? So, that's part of my issue. And we're not even going to go down the rabbit hole of some of the IV stuff and where, you know, people in in Mexico or maybe it was in Dubai that got really sick. You may have heard of a New York Post uh article that came out recently that it happened to be discussed in uh by a physician that was using these that said he was using these, but in actuality it wasn't the real ones and they were fake. And then a couple patients that are quite famous got really sick and one of them was septic and you know so there was some really risky stuff. So you know anybody asking about muse cells I I I want to know more. I I you know I'm intrigued but at the same time I'm very scared because I you know I will I won't trust anything until I can actually see it used and created and I I just want to know how it's made. Wasn't there an episode of Joe Rogan on with like the well wells to wells guys like like raving about it? >> Yeah. >> Like that was >> interesting. >> That's what that's what I'm saying. Show me more. >> You know. >> Well, and we know people that are um on the advisory board um you know, we go to conferences and doctors talk about it offstage and they're talking about onstage now, but offstage they're they have a lot of questions. [laughter] >> Yeah. and they don't necessarily believe what they're saying on stage. You know that it's unfortunate. >> That's bizarre. >> Well, and like you know, we look at the the studies that were done on this. You know, the main uh p paper that was published on it was in a journal and it it's okay. I mean, it's not a great journal, not great peer-review journal. And um and then some of the papers that proved the stem cell, they didn't say where they were funded, but some acknowledgements that were supported by Life Science Institute in Tokyo, which is a Mitsubishi subsidiary, which Mitsubishi is the one that made the mucel. So they're these other papers are getting funded by the very place that actually made the term immuse stem cell. Yeah. >> And you know, it's it's just there's so many questions. You know, I'm not here to say they're absolutely not true. They have this marker SSEA3 and the question is was that made from the culture medium that was there? And and does that absolutely mean that when you get it in in your office that it's something different or >> is it stable? Right. >> Is it stable? Yeah. you know, and you know, like >> what are what are the main risk behind like because you mentioned someone got septic like what's the main risk >> of taking these >> so-called stem cells. >> Well, well, the septic thing, you know, that could be just somebody just didn't do it, didn't clean the skin, right? You know, we can't say, we don't know what the source they did it. We have no idea, >> right? But um so you know we think that it's very likely that the cell they're talking about is just another MSC just another stem cell because like for example in one paper they said that the MSC's were grown the normal way stuck on flat to stuck flat to the dish in a standard medium. The mucils were grown in a suspension on a non-stick poly heema surface in medium containing 2% methyl. Okay, lot lots of fancy terms, but they have to do a control with the MSE's grown in the same way in order to absolutely say that they are different. But they didn't do that. And so there's a lot of [snorts] statements that are are suggesting that the MU cells are great, but if they didn't do a control to say the MSSE, well, did the MSSE do the same thing? Well, you didn't study that, so we can't even say. [snorts] And and so now all of a sudden you have a cell that looks great, but it does a lot of similar things that a MSE does. >> And why couldn't it be the same cell? >> So is there like legitimate risk though to taking this? >> Anytime you put an IV in with someone, there's legitimate risk. >> Yeah. >> You know, and that's that's the caveat is that you're not injecting this into the shoulder. I mean, you guess you could, but from what we've heard, people want to do this IV. >> When you go into that vein, it's go time, >> right? you know, and that's the problem. >> Is this going throughout your entire body? >> You can't take it out. Once it's in there, it's in there. >> Is the body gonna react to it? Is gonna freak out? Is, you know, is it see it as a foreign invader? You know, >> well, and I I think what you're getting at is, okay, what are we actually injecting? And and this is my whole thing being in the field for for this long is define exactly what you're injecting. If it is a stressmade cell, which means it was made in the culture medium or you had to to amplify something in order to create the cell, then we ought to talk about it like that. We don't we can't just say it's a subset of your your own cells cuz it's not. >> And and >> Wow. So, you're saying it it's actually like introducing your body to a foreign cell. >> Well, and it's not necessarily bad if that's the case. It's just, you know, >> how will your body respond to it? Well, we don't we don't know exactly what it is, right? And but you know, you wanted to talk about the reactor >> like because, you know, we this is just inside information. >> So, I was speaking with someone was like a month or two ago. Uh and they're like, "Hey, they're they're working on potentially getting these here in America and they're trying to make them." I was like, "Okay." And I said, "Well, we've been trying to figure out how to make them, too." And they said, "They need to use some type of reactor in order to make them." That is a very specific word and it makes me think a lot of crazy things in order to be able to do that. So, I'm fascinated, but it'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Um, >> maybe they're real, maybe they're fake. Uh, but I I show me more data. Show me more science and let me analyze it. Compare it to stuff that we know that works. Is it safe? You know, we need we need more studies. That's that at the end of the day, that's that's where I'm at. Well, and at one point it was a patented process. Well, you know, you can't patent science. You either have it and reproduce it or not. But yeah, there's a you know that's independent labs struggle to reproduce this. So what's you know why you know that shouldn't happen >> you know but they're selling it all over the place and I've heard there's production center well they're licensing out of Japan now and well you even contacted the original place and they told you look at the website. >> Yeah that's all I said. I said hey we would like to be a provider in the United States. Can you give me more information? Everything is on their website. >> This is the place in Japan. >> This is the main MCI. Yeah. Dawa. Yeah. >> That was their answer within like an hour. Like literally like it was almost immediate and I was like great. >> Okay. Very informative. >> And is their website extensive or no? It's like pretty much everything that we just talked about. It's just it has papers, but when you actually look at the papers, >> they're not. Are you allowed? Are you allowed as a physician to order from them? >> I I don't know. >> As far as I could tell, it wasn't available to be ordered. >> Yeah. >> You know, I couldn't even get someone on the phone to answer questions. >> But, you know, I I it's fascinating. >> But you can go there and have a treatment done is what they're saying. >> Is that what how it works? Well, from what I understand, and you know, I'm not going to pretend like we know absolutely everything about about this, but I think they're developing partnerships with people in the US to sell them. >> Okay. >> And that's where they're headed. And and that's where, you know, what you were talking about, somebody did it, but it really wasn't a mucus because it didn't come from this location. >> Yeah. >> And well, then what what really is a mucel just because it has this marker on it? I mean, nobody else can reproduce it. Um, >> and I know Duncan's not here, but what what's his stance on this? >> It, you know, he's trying to see if he can reproduce it and and see what he can do in there, but, you know, he's looking through the the research and, you know, if you can't have independent places actually show that it exists, that's a problem. And and that's a big red flag. And so until until that happens on a more consistent basis or until we understand what this reactor is, I mean what so if they so reactor implies that something has to be done to the cell in order to make it happen, right? I don't know. That's just common sense to me, >> right? Like a charge or something. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and years ago there was another cell that was we call them stress cells that you know if you have to create the cell in a lab or with a reactor, it's called a stress cell. And years ago, another product got taken off the market for doing that because they said it was a a real sale. And that goes back to my original problem with uh it being an ad in nature to get it popular, [laughter] >> right? >> And now, but now you have Joe Rogan talking about it and like why, you know, you know, have some PhDs on that are going to actually break this down. Get five PhDs on your show, Joe, and break it down. have opinions because we need to be critically thinking about what we're actually injecting in people. >> Yeah. >> And we need to know for sure >> safety and reproducibility. If it works and it's amazing, let's use it. But prove to me that it works and prove to me that it's safe, >> right? >> You know, >> and then prove to me that's different than what we have, right? >> We we have access to the best stem cells the money can buy. Period. But I need to I need proof that this actually is worthy of being used. >> And that's actually a good point because correct me if I'm wrong if I remember correctly. I I didn't watch on context. I didn't watch the entire episode or anything. I just saw little YouTube shorts, you know. So I didn't see it in detail, but I think the excitement around Mel's, correct me if I'm wrong, is that they're cheaper. >> That's the question. >> Well, that kind of like, >> you know, I don't even know. I I didn't listen to the whole thing. >> It kind of like it seemed like that's what it was framed as. >> Okay. >> Yeah. To me. >> Got it. >> Like they were so excited because stem cells are so expensive and these are not. Like that's kind of how I might have been misinterpreted, but >> Well, that that'd be crazy because, you know, if it's a if it theoretically is a subset of MSE's, you got to isolate the MSEs, then you got to isolate the mu cells from them. So, how would it be cheaper? >> Yeah. True. Yeah. Fascinating discussion. I I think uh we'll probably hear more about it or we won't hear anything about it at all. It's one of the two, >> you know. Anything else to add? >> Um >> well, what is y'all's thought on >> because I have Have you all been to Japan? >> No. >> Yeah. Once. >> So, I've I've never been, but I've I've uh just continuously lately, Oscar can tell you, we've had literally like the last seven podcast guests just recently come back from Japan. And [laughter] it was weird. It's like I'm not exaggerating. And uh they just rave about it. Just say it's just unbelievable. So is there any >> any thought to like that Japan has figured something out that we haven't? You know, I mean because they figure out a lot of, you know, China and Japan figure out a lot of stuff that we don't. >> It's always possible, you know. >> It's always possible, >> you know. But my my biggest issue with it is show me found, you know, strong foundational science. Show me double blinded. Show me the science. Show me where someone across the world can analyze and understand it. >> Yeah. >> You know, and I we haven't seen that yet. >> Might have to do the American gangster and just go. >> I mean, you know, and until until that happens, I'm I'm skeptical. >> Just just get in the boat and go see if it go see the poppy seeds. Well, you know, another uh study that they pushed mu muse cells toward making uh in the lab fat cells, liver cells, and nerve cells, but they didn't have a an MSC arm, the regular stem cell, where they did the same thing. So, that they couldn't say for sure that the MSEs couldn't do it. Well, why not? You know what? It would have been easy to do. Um, and and it's just little things like that that are left out that make you insinuate that their mu cells are these great things. But if they would have put an MSSE right next to it, it could have done the same thing, insinuating that it was actually an MSC >> instead of a specialized cell. >> Yeah, that's it. That's it. >> But, you know, you know, we have a whole list in here. We won't go through all these little details because it's boring. But, you know, our big my big takeaway is really we just need more critical thinking and and I want to see, you know, it burns me uh so many doctors are are just jumping on board. Everywhere I go now, doctors are talking about this stuff, but again, it's the PhDs I don't see talking about it >> and that's that's what I want to see. I want to see people analyzing the data and trying to reproduce this. >> Yep. 100%. you know, and then so taking all that, you know, we talk about products and you know, what we pride ourselves in is knowing products and really getting indepth on them and being able to utilize them in our office. And kind of like that case you talked about earlier with the back that came in earlier. Um, he came in for an IV, but you know, Dr. Morris was smart enough to go, you know, put it right where it goes. And so then I come in, talk to the guy, and he had a fusion at T112, had a fusion at L5S1. Then it got infected at L5S1 with staff. So he went on IV antibiotics for six months and then they had to remove the screw out of his back and then he developed all this burning nerve pain for years. He's had this and he started doing IV stem cells with somebody and um but I go in there and you know I look at I feel the spot. I go is this where the pain's at? And he goes yeah that's it. I go okay it's either a tendon injury or it's coming from the spine. And so the first thing I did and this is what this is how we're really different. You know, we take that information, we go, okay, well, where are we going to inject this with somebody who has two different fusions in his back, he has degenerative disc, he has herniations, all this scar tissue from the surgeries, and we have to differentiate and get to the the actual root cause of his problem. And this is where depth of knowledge comes into play because without that depth of knowledge, people would have no idea. They'd just do an IV like he was doing. Well, I I said, "Look, let's start with the easiest thing. If it's a tendon injury, that's so simple. Your your bones barely underneath your skin. I can numb that up. If your pain goes away, great. Then all we do is inject that tendon." Well, I did that. His pain didn't go away. Well, okay. So, then we go deeper. I went down to the facet joints in his spine and numb that up. And then guess what? All of his pain went away. >> It's like me. >> Yep. Exactly. Yep. And so then he had brought his own cells. He had them culture. Actually, he brought the culture expanded cells in. >> Oh, yeah. Yep. And we just injected right there. >> And and um I don't think that's going to solve his problem because of all the disc and other things. I think we're gonna have to do a bigger procedure, but that's gave him hope in order to come back and he will do that procedure in the future. >> I have a question for you now. I'm going make it let's make this about me. Um but uh hearing you say that. So obviously I think most of my stuff lately has been stress related but um my back has the pain has completely gone right ever since the the alig was it alligraph is that the one tissue graph >> tissue graph I did um the one directly in his nose the vis >> so I did the vioadisk >> 38 days later not 30 like you told me but [laughter] 38 days later >> of course you did >> trust me I was counting the days um 38 8 days later, exactly on the mark. My pain went away. Hallelujah. Um but uh but lately I've really noticed like that toothpick feeling that I've always talked about. Unstable feeling. So the pain did not return at all, which is again, hallelujah, I'll live with that all day long. >> But me being an active person and now having two little kids and picking them up all the time and wanting to run around with them and stuff like that. is there what's the when should I consider do I need to do that again? You see what I'm saying? Like that's what's been kind of going through my mind lately is um is how long does that viodis last? It's supposed to last. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, the viodis gives substance to the disc again. Like what we really need to do is do another MRI. >> Okay. >> So that's where we're headed with you. But also the other day we did something called acuit. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. Because um >> my butt's still sore, by the way. [laughter] I want to tell you about that. That is a fascinating machine. >> Yes. So, what we've noticed with Manny like um the the reason we had to inject him every couple years cuz he kept doing pretty heavy weights, >> right? Stupid [ __ ] >> Yeah. We call that >> call that ego stuff. We don't do that anymore. >> Let's give reference. What What would be a normal farmer walk [laughter] for you with weights? >> Yeah. Like a a like a knot >> back in the day. >> Yeah. Back Oh, back in the day. >> Yeah. When you were 120 each arm. Yeah. >> Okay. How many people have 120 lb dumbbells in each arm doing a walk? Okay. To get that context. Okay. >> Well, well, in more context, okay, we injected his back and he was able to go and do that again. So, for everybody out there. >> Yeah. >> And then also like throwing sandbags around and pushing thousand lb sleds and stuff >> into sand. Stupid. But >> well, we don't do that stuff anymore. >> So, finally he stopped doing it. And and and there's always a balance though. You don't we don't want you doing that kind of stuff. But now your glutes have gotten so weak, they're not protecting the back anymore. So I would prefer to do the acuit four to six times. Okay. To see if we can build the musculature around to stabilize. Yeah. >> And maybe I think that could very well help you. >> Okay. >> And if not then we'll we can go down >> figure out the price of this ACU fit thing. >> Okay. So let's talk about this. [laughter] So this this is a really cool device. So Acuit is a m a basically a modified crazy version of a 10's unit. Think of it that way. So if a TENS unit is an electrical stimulation unit that puts a a probe and puts it on a specific muscle, whether it's glute, whether it's abdomen, whether it's hamstring, calf, whatever essentially is stimulating the muscle and the muscle is a big electric. >> It's an external strobe, guys, not internal. >> So you know, you're putting [laughter] out >> the stimulation is external. >> So just throwing that out there. >> So anybody who's ever used a 10ens unit, maybe that's the level one we'll call it. Then there's what we call Russian 10ens, which is like new fit. There's a couple different versions of it. That is 10x. So that's 10 times stronger than a 10ens unit. This is a hundred times stronger to give you a calculation. Um these there's about 200 to 250 of these in the United States, but they're almost all at specifically at uh >> really rich people's houses, [laughter] you know, Dana White, the US, Mark. Yeah. High level high level facilities. But it's a beautiful device. It is not a cheap device. But when you do it, it actually stimulates the muscle at the core, which then causes it to be able to respond so that you can actually fire the muscle again mentally. And each time you do it, it makes that uh cell and and muscle stronger. So that's essentially it's basically rewiring the muscle and recharging it, so to speak. Uh and and that's why, you know, if you put it on the glutes, every time you do that, maybe the the left glute is is, you know, can handle a load of 50% and the right glute can only handle 30%. Or or or or 20% less. >> So, basically what you're trying to do is you're trying to bring them together so that they work together and you can mentally fire them again, right? So, and each time you do it, the protocol is traditionally once a week for four weeks or twice a week for two weeks. Uh each time it builds on the previous one. So you'd be like, "Oh." And then when you put turn a machine on, you shouldn't have to use as much charge as the first time because it because it's it's building. So that's the that's the cool part about it. And we've done it on 89y old ladies. We've done it on, you know, young people in their 18, 20 year old. So it's a cool product, cool device. Uh really fast, really strong. I don't know how how you felt on it, but it's strong. >> It felt great though. >> Yeah. And you're still sore. >> But yeah, my my butt sore sitting here. >> That was what? Friday. >> Yeah, that was Friday. Today's Wednesday, so you know. >> No, it definitely uh >> my abs didn't get sore at all. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> But yeah, >> we'll just focus on your glutes. >> But I just want to focus on the glutes. Maybe the calves, too. Out of >> It's cool. Out of vanity. >> Out of vanity. The >> the other thing that I think it's really cool for, which is why we also like it, is uh the older people that that struggle with muscle mass, like instability of the hips or low back pain. Well, the core and the low back, if if those muscles that are rounded are weak, they're not going to be able to handle it and they're not going to have the energy and and the weight to be able to strength train. So, they basically are just, you know, they're at high risk for falls and hip fractures and stuff like that. And then you have the older women who hate their saggy arms. So, you can kind of optimize that. So, you have all these different things. And then you use it posttop. So, I had a guy with an Achilles tear yesterday and he said, "Hey, I'm worried about my calf, you know, getting skinny because I can't do anything on it for three, four months or whatever it ends up being." So, we can actually put it on the the calf and stimulate the calf without stimulating the Achilles at all. >> Yeah, that's amazing. >> So, you know, and you put on both, but the the one side's going to be normal or relatively normal, the other side's going to be weak. So, you bring it up. So by the time he gets out of his boot and starts pushing it, the calfs look exactly the same as they should as they did before his injury. Um, so that's one of the relatively cool examples that you can use it for. So there's not many places I think there's two here in Miami maybe. >> Yeah, there's not many. And it was first made is actually a body contouring device to compete with M Sculpt. And M Sculpt only has one contraction whereas this one has four different contractions. So you actually can get a better result with this versus M Sculpt. So [snorts] for anybody out there vanity wise looking at this. >> Yeah. So it's we have some cool toys here I like to say and that's one of the toys. >> Yeah. You you know we try to get things that people don't have and and that way we can get people better through different means and we tend to get those complicated >> patients like that guy with the back we had earlier and you know they were so happy smiling ear to ear because he's like first time I haven't had burning >> in years. >> Couple years. Yeah. Oh, it's the once that burning stops, it's like the most it's the greatest feeling ever. So, cuz it's I mean, for four and a half years, I could I wouldn't be able to sit like this, you know? >> Yeah. No, you were you were miserable. >> [ __ ] you're just like, [laughter] >> how old were you in that when you felt that roughly? >> How Oh, jeez. [laughter] Sorry. Um >> how how old was I when >> you felt that pain? Like what? >> Oh, I mean I did this my junior year in high school is when I broke my back first. >> Uh I actually played nine games with a broken back and I would get shots like this big of torid doll in high school. >> The old school. >> Yeah. You know the big horse, you know. >> Oh yeah. That thick. >> And uh >> and then I got a bone scan and they found the fracture and apologized to me. And then uh and then you know it was always you know you need surgery, you need surgery and I was like no I'm not doing surgery. And then I kind of rehab myself back. Um I'll never forget this chiropractor at the time he told me to take these pills called bone factor 1. And he was like take them like M&M's and I and I did and then he told me to get as flexible as possible. So that so my junior year in my junior year in high school I was 235 pounds. I ended up getting down to 195 like shredded. could do the full splits like a cheerleader. And then I took those pills and I got a I redid the bone scan and you could see the calcium deposit laid over the the fracture. >> Oh wow. >> So it it literally healed and then I was like defensive player of the year that that year and then earned a scholarship to Auburn and then my junior year at Auburn I broke it again. >> So then and it was worse this time. So before it was a hairline fracture. This time it was a full fracture. M >> and then again they told me I needed surgery. So from from >> 200 1 until the day I met Sean I was in pain. >> That was what 2010 2011 somewhere around there. >> Yeah. >> So I was in pain for like nine years straight. >> And that was when you were training everybody. >> Oh and I still I still never >> No days off. I still never took a day off. I still never did not train. And it was kind of weird because I say this all the time during during my workouts and during sex it didn't hurt. [laughter] So I did that a lot. So >> Okay. >> But but um but other than that it it felt like crap. So you know >> there you go. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's been a interesting ride. Well that kind of leads us to you know when did you first get into peptides? >> I think it was 2010ish. whenever whenever peptide sciences was born that's when so I I used to do like I used to be like a funny like instead of like cuz this is before social media instead of instead of like scrolling and stuff that people do now I was always a Google nerd you know like searching stuff and so I'd always search supplements always and like the next greatest thing and then I always bought them and tried them it didn't matter what it was I tried tried every supplement under this sun and then and sometimes I got some crazy like bad results like bad like sometimes some of the stuff messed me up. I'll never forget that one that I took and it like uh you remember that when it would it messed my um >> it did something to my like uh my nervous system or something like >> your brain. >> It was it was something wild. It was like I don't remember. >> It made me uh like it it Yeah. just like adrenaline like it it was wild and it was crazy cuz I took the pill >> and then and again I mean I didn't know what the heck it was. I just read about it. I took the pill and literally within 20 minutes I thought I was going to die. [laughter] So I'm gone the ambulance or whatever and then it lasted like three weeks. Like the feeling lasted like three weeks from one pill. >> One pill. One pill. It was horrible. It apparently like was curing dementia or something and I read that it was like good for you know it was like a neurotropic but apparently was like really strong. So >> but yeah so then so doing those Google searches whatever I came across peptide sciences so we'd have to look up when that was launched >> and I started ordering them and started injecting these foreign substances in my body and getting amazing results and Matsi was one like the one I loved. I used to take it all the time. Yeah, >> still do. And uh I'm trying to think the other ones. Um Ipam Morlin, Tessa Morlin. >> Yeah, CJCOP. >> Yeah, all those. The CJC has never sat well with me for some reason. >> It's strong. It's really sensitive. It doesn't It makes me have uh the >> flushing >> the uh [snorts] >> you know what I'm talking horrible. I turn blood red and I just start itching all over. And for something like right under my nut sack. So I'm just like in the bed like [laughter] like it's just terrible. >> It's the worst feeling ever. >> So I'll never do that [ __ ] >> One time you call me you're like I'm red. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> No, it's so weird because you take it and then you're you know you're just chilling like and then all of a sudden you feel like yourself like heating up >> and you go and you look in the mirror. I looked in the mirror. I thought I was like >> like Hulk like the Hulk changing cuz I was I was as red as your tie, bro. [laughter] I was as red as your top. >> I had a patient that did that. >> I don't think this is normal. [laughter] And I'm calling Sean. I'm like, I'M BLOOD RED, MAN. >> SO, so peptides are the rage right now, but they've been around for a long time. >> Yeah. >> And, you know, we've been using them uh and been prescribing them for many years. um you know o over the past three four months there's been a significant change in the legislature for them and and now I think there's a pretty good chance come late July early August couple months from now we will see many of the main ones that are quote unquote banned be available for prescription via you know the the the um the compoundingies probably the the level ones now they're all level twos even though they probably shouldn't uh which is super exciting and super fascinating. Um from my understanding is I think the GLPs will be reserved for the um you know predominantly for big pharma. I think big pharma is going to keep the GLPs. Retta is a monster. It will be a monster. Um but I think we'll end up seeing the actual the rest of the you know BBC's [snorts] and the KPVs and the MSE's and all the beautiful ones. They're going to be for compoundingies. Now, now here's the question, though, because this is what's happening, right? >> Is you literally are seeing this, especially on social media. You're seeing like pictures of places in China just like vials upon vials, and then you got some guy pops up and he's like, "Would you like to open your own peptide store?" You know, you know what I mean? So, >> so what is the protocol in terms of the average Joe that wants to do peptides? And and I'll give you what my advice is and this is like non-d doctor advice, right? I somebody because I get it all the time like Oscar just asked me the other day. He's like, "I want to start pop peptides." And I said, "All right, this is what we're going to do. You're going to get your blood work done first. Then you're going to sit down with my doctor and then he's going to tell you what you should do and then he's going to get it from a known pharmacy for you." >> That's like my advice. Would Is that kind of fair to say? >> Yeah. You want to know where you're getting it from? You want to know that it's clean and that it's reputable, right? And it's not you're not going to kill yourself while you're >> and you want to know like your baseline. Like let's know where your starting point is so that you can then test again to see if the stuff even is is for you cuz it's not cheap. >> Well, you may have something going on in your body that you need a certain peptide versus another one. >> Exactly. 100%. I mean, and then if someone has a history of cancer, they have to be very careful, right? They they should not be on any of the growth homeless security gucks. You know, if someone has a lot of mitochondrial issues, they got to address the mitochondrial issues before they fix anything else. >> You know, if someone uh has a lot of pain, but they have a history of thyroid cancer, then they shouldn't be on TB500 because there's a connection with thyroid cancer. Uh if someone has recently had a stroke, then there's a couple different beautiful peptides that can help. You know, we we finally were able to get a source for cerebralin, which is a beautiful peptide from from Russia that you can't get in America until now. Um, you know, there's >> also like good for no. >> It's a super strong brain peptide essentially what it is. >> Well, and for strokes, for like in Europe, they're doing this all the time. Yeah. Like for brain issues, >> IV, you know, some stuff, you know, uh, but, you know, I, you know, now everybody talk about glow, right? Everybody's talking about glow right now. >> I'm on glow, >> you know. Uh, can't you tell? >> You know, and GHK has some beautiful properties. That's what makes it blue. Um, but, you know, so there's all these different things. And the tricky part is sourcing. Do do physicians understand how to prescribe them? What are they monitoring? What is the pathofizz? How do they get there? So, I'm actually working on a certification course for physicians. It should be ready in about a month or so. Basically doing just that, actually educating them at the base level, saying, "Hey, this is what each of these peptides do. This is what we're how to use it. This is how long you use it for. These are the different labs that you check. These are the different things that you should do. you cycle off at 3 months and you recheck a couple things and then you can restart again. So you have all these different things what the protocol is, right? Your MSI protocol is probably different than most people's MSI protocol. You've been on it for a very long time. There's the Russian protocol which is one bottle a week. I think at one point in time you were on that. >> Yeah, I was doing that. >> Then there's the Ukrainian protocol which is twice one bottle every other week basically 10 milligrams. And then there's this what I call the American protocol which is one bottle a month which is a much slower obviously protocol. beautiful peptide if you know what you're supposed to do with it. But what protocol are you doing? You know, what are you trying to do? >> Gen Z protocol or [laughter] >> it's the people that want to take it slow, which is fine. You know, 100%. Well, and I don't know if you want to talk about, you know, the advisor you talked to that close to Kennedy, you know, asks about our experience with the peptides and and so, you know, as some people may know watching this, you know, there's a lot of regulation going on this opening up. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, um, a couple months ago, I won't go into specific specifics, but, uh, a couple months ago, I think Januaryish, uh, I got reached out by, uh, by a doctor. He basically said, "Hey, I know you talk a lot about peptides. I don't really have any affiliation with them. I don't know much about them. Would you be able to help me with some safety studies, help me with some information, just kind of give me groundwork?" Long story short, that was essentially presented directly to RFK and that helped the process of eventually allowing them to be re-evaluated and determined that maybe they needs to be reviewed again and and likely uh brought forth. You know, the problem with like BPC, which is a beautiful peptide, is that it's actually patented. So the problem with with patented is the company that owns patent is not going to spend $50 million, $100 million to do a study on this because a they're about to lose the patent and b it's available for dirt cheap all over the universe. >> So we know it works. There's no question it works, but unfortunately we're not going to have this massive crazy study, at least a traditional study in that sense. So I think that's part of a lot of it. Thus alpha 1, an absolutely beautiful peptide is a drug in 35 countries, just not this one. >> You know what does it do? It rebuilds your immune system. Kind of cool, huh? But unfortunately, >> big on that during co a >> beautiful, you know, and and there's a beautiful study that came out >> and then it was that was almost impossible to get, right? >> Yeah. There was a beautiful study actually just read the other day out of China during COVID that actually proved it worked against COVID thyospha specifically. >> Um, and you know, and it's it's basically what we used to use for HIV patients that didn't have an immune system. Like that's literally what you >> shrinks uh tumors, too. And and not only that, it actually I I never seen this before, but it actually helps to recirculate and re-plenish glutathione. >> I never knew that. >> I didn't know that. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, it does some cool things. And there's all these other different ones that depending on what you're trying to achieve and and there's a sequencing to it. You know, there if you're trying to do the mitochondrial sequencing, if you're trying to reset your sleep, epalone is a beautiful peptide. >> You know, maybe you consider humanin hard to get, really expensive, but really effective. If someone has a poor mitochondria, I would not put them on MOS CI. I would rebuild them with SS31 first and then I would put them on MOS C >> because you're basically, if you think of it, the mitochondria engine, you're rebuilding the engine with SS31 and then you're going to stimulate that engine with MOS. >> But if you're not taking PQQ, you're not taking CoQ10, you're you're not, you know, uh you don't have any creatine on board or any NAD available, you're going to burn out the engine. That must is not going to work, >> right? You know, >> that's also why you you have to have like guidance around this stuff >> because if not there's plan doctor, you know, and you know, that's not even talking about sourcing. I'm just talking about sequencing and and >> you know, you can learn a lot on your own, but you know, coming to places like ours where we've seen hundreds of thousands of patients doing it. You know, we we can see some people that have had side effects, right? When when you're doing it on your own, you have friends doing it, that's like five or 10 people most of the time. >> Yeah. And there's some cool ones, man. There's some crazy stuff coming. Um, you know, every every week someone askked me about a new one. I'm like, "Oh, I haven't heard of that one yet." And it's just some random letters like >> that. I can't wait till comes out. Then they say it's like a muscle building one that's going to like change the future. I I'm a little scared. >> Say like five amino Q is pretty good. I mean, >> no, this one's supposed I know exactly what you're talking about. >> This is like the Red True Tide of muscle building. >> No, you're talking about Fuller Staten. Yeah, >> you're talking about full stat. >> Well, no, foul statin's already out. >> Well, there's a couple variants of it, >> but there's a couple versions, >> but there's like a there's a new level one. I think I sent it to you that >> it hasn't been like approved or yet. >> So part of the issue with a lot of these I need to see studies on them because I'm a little afraid of them. >> Yeah. What's going to happen? >> Yeah. >> Just all the same thing as the immune cells. What's going to happen? >> Yeah. Exactly. >> So and the other caveat is the >> you'll be awake for four months. >> The heart is a muscle. >> Yeah. True. >> So it's like if you're going to build muscle, well we don't want the heart to get bigger. At least not >> in certain context. So that's the tricky part about a lot of these. >> So we know what we know. There's about 50 that we use regularly. There's 300,000 to 700,000 of them in the body. >> Wow. >> There's a lot of them. >> Wow. >> You know, we just need to know which ones what do they do? Which ones are safe to use when, >> you know, so I think that's, you know, I think that's that's the cool thing about PET. >> So, going back to the basics, you know, get some blood work, see what where you're at. Do you have medical history? Then we can guide >> uh guide the the whole process. >> Yeah. The smartest thing is blood work first, come talk about it, have a baseline, then put together a protocol, do that protocol, and then test again. So, >> I'll never forget a few years ago, I think three years ago, we had a guy come in. He has all these medical issues, and he started getting into AI, and he goes, "I figured it out." He goes, "I put all my medical records into AI and it came out with a miracle drug. All I need is BPC. >> [laughter] >> I couldn't I couldn't stop laughing. [laughter] >> Okay, we can try. >> It was autoimmune. It was like all these peptide they make. So, >> great. It's a great [laughter] peptide. >> Perfect. I was going to fix everything to start. [snorts] >> Beautiful. Beautiful. >> Well, a little bit um because I think this is to help your marketing, Sean. Um a little call to action right now. So, Jesse, let everybody know where they can find you, how they can reach out to you. Um, go. >> Yeah. So, um, most people either come to Miami, we have an office in Tennessee, we have a couple other satellite offices predominantly for IVs, uh, the osteopathic center, and we do tele medicine visits a lot if you're not local. Uh, but you know, we're just trying to help do a super deep dive, analyze labs, analyze goals, rebuild mitochondria, fix your gut, get off the garbage seed oils, you know, stop eating gluten, you know, get rid of your toxins. Microplastics are a huge problem. We haven't really got there yet, but we're getting there. You know, happy to help if you're if you're looking to looking to help yourself. >> And then where can they find you? Like online? >> Uh, Twitter is my primary at Dr. Jesse Morris. Then then our main practice websites www.theostiocenter.com >> and how can they get in touch with you? >> Just office [email protected] is the best way. Just you know hit us up and you know we can do a phone call and do a zoom call. We can do in person >> and then how can they get all this beautiful knowledge and look at your sexy face. >> So get get on our uh social media. We're um either um on let's see Instagram at the OsteoCenter KJS Goddard um on Tik Tok and Instagram too. >> Yeah. >> And at the o center at uh YouTube. >> Yeah, >> you might see my ass on there. So definitely want to tune in. >> We took we took a video. And uh so we we have a a trademark procedure, prolong graph procedure. And and I had a car wreck. I don't know how many people know this three months ago, but I had so many problems. I didn't really focus on my shoulder. had shoulder pain every single day for the last 3 months and it was posterior and we injected the posterior side of it. We thought well let's do that. It it kind of helped but not really. Yesterday um he injected the front of it with lidocaine and we have videos of the muscle testing and all of my posterior pain went away. >> Wow. >> And then we went in and injected uh and it was all tissue grafted. And um we went in there with this. And normally you don't get that sore from that, but our needling technique, the way we do our procedures here at the office is is completely unique. And it sucks to go through the recovery, but you get better. And uh you'll see I I can't really lift my arm up. [laughter] >> And that's with a good product. >> And this is with good product. If I would have done PRP, oh, >> he'd be miserable. >> I'd be I wouldn't be here right now. That's for That's for sure. >> Yeah. But and this is why we inject this product. For one, we get better results. for two. It's less inflammation. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's why whenever I see, oh, this this player had PRP, I'm like >> I'm like PRP is ridiculously inflammatory. What are you doing? >> Like, you know, like money should not be a problem with these proathletes. You should not be using PRP. I don't care. [snorts] You know, use something that's strong, that's anti-inflammatory, and that you can return quickly. Like, stop it. Money should not be a rate limiting factor for someone who makes $20 million a year or $50 million a year. >> And they just don't, in my opinion, they don't understand. Like, you know, I've done over 200,000. I'd say collectively, we've probably done over 250, maybe even 300,000 shots. And after you do enough injections, you see a pattern. And the pattern is stem cells works better. And if you have the money, why wouldn't you do that? And it blows my mind that people don't spend it um when they're making that kind of money. >> Yeah. 100%. >> 100%. >> Cool. Well, appreciate you all coming. How about you? Where can people find you? >> Yeah. I mean, first of all, let's highlight the water. So, um, one of the things that stands out to me is both of these guys invested in the water. And one of the main reasons they did is because of the intentionality in what's in this can. It took me two years to develop the water. We third party test the water. It's literally the best water on the planet right now. Um, 10 times the amount of electrolytes than your average water. 99.99992% pure like. And uh we use BPA free cans and um when we're just getting started on the on the journey and you can find us the water at drink no days off on Instagram. You can find me at Manning Sumner and then the overall brand in the gyms is uh Legacy No Days Off. So, um, appreciate you guys for always taking care of me. And, uh, if you're really looking to take your health to the next level, whether it's mental, spiritual, physical, these are the guys that will lean in. They'll, uh, care about you first and, uh, and then repair you second. >> Great. >> Beautiful. Thanks for coming.